Son of Jim and Mary?

by Guest Wed 19 Mar 2014 - 17:00

Here is a thread on Casebook about the mystery man named Jack Wilson and the possibility that he is the son of James Maybrick and the last Ripper victim Mary Kelly.

P.S. No links allowed yet? Okay. It's in the Royal Conspiracy section.

by **Karen** Sun 23 Mar 2014 - 2:59

Hi Maybea:

You must be a registered member for one week before you can post external links. Sorry for the inconvenience - try again at a later date.

by Guest Sun 6 Apr 2014 - 19:02

Son of Jack the Ripper thread.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=7913

by Guest Thu 8 Jan 2015 - 14:57

Now that it's been uncovered that Mary Jane Wilson ne. Kelly had a niece that was saved by the City Missionary who said he rescued a friend of the real Mary Jane Kelly, might it be time to discuss this Mary Jane Wilson from Liverpool?

She doesn't have to be the real MJK. She could still have a child with James Maybrick while in Liverpool.

The stories of James as Jack could have started the same way they did with "Uncle Jack", Dr. John Williams - with a girlfriend named Mary Kelly.

by Guest Thu 8 Jan 2015 - 18:25

by Guest Fri 16 Jan 2015 - 13:06

Re: Gull Treated the Ripper http://victorianripper.niceboard.org/t1558-gull-treated-the-ripper

Here are the posts that trace the route of the Conspiracy theory through the Carnarvons and their links to MJW a.k.a. MJK from Liverpool. Her son m arried into servants of the Carnarvons and the Tecks in 1919.

Stewart Evans traces Philippe's sources back to Thomas Stowell who published his Royal Conspiracy article in 1970. http://www.casebook.org/dissertation...nsorigins.html

Stowell twice gives his source as William Gull's daughter, Caroline Acland. She supposedly had secret papers about Prince Eddy and told a tale of Robert James Lees in Ghost Detective. The story goes Stowell met with her in the thirties but she died in 1929. http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.co...-02/1109226292

...it makes me wonder if the source can't be traced further back than 1929-30s....

by Guest on Wed 27 Mar 2013 - 19:52

Interestingly, Caroline Acland's husband is a cousin of the wife of the 2nd Earl of Carnarvon (Elizabeth Kitty Acland), making Thomas Dyke Acland cousins with the Carnarvon family.
It's interesting because, according to her family's genealogy, Elsie Frances Sullivan ne. Searle, wife of L'pool MJK's son, is the goddaughter of the 4th Earl of Carnarvon.
Since she also knew Prince Eddy's betrothed, Princess May, could this be the path for a tale of an "MJK" orphan who may not have known who real his father was?
Teck/Searle to Carnarvon to Acland to Stowell to Phillipe to Speare to Knight....

by Guest Fri 16 Jan 2015 - 18:28

This man, a.k.a. Arthur John Sullivan, is, of course, the one previously thought to be the son of Sir Arthur Sullivan and Mary Jane Kelly.

The story certainly resonates with some of the origin stories for the name of Whitechapel, named after the church, St. Mary Matfelon.

"Whitechapel"
From Old and New London: A Narrative of Its History, Its People and Its Places by Walter Thornbury, 1881.

Strype thinks that the word Matfellon is somehow or other derived from the Hebrew or Syriac word "Matfel," which signified a woman recently delivered of a son - that is, to the Virgin, recently delivered.

by Guest Wed 4 Feb 2015 - 20:38

[*]The future sister-in-law of Mary Jane Wilson is listed in the 1861 Census working for cotton merchant, Augustus Agelasto. His residence that year, and also in 1881 was 3 miles from James.

[*]1881 England census [West Derby rural]: Lockerby Road, West Derby, Lancashire: Augustus S. Agelasto, 66, married; unmarried sons Stephen, 28, both , cotton brokers, b. Greece; John 26, cotton salesman, b. Liverpool; Tryphon, 17; daughters Aspasia, 16; Lucie, 14, all scholars, b. Liverpool; & 2 servants.
[*]The 1861 England census: 175 Grove Street, Liverpool, household headed by Augustus Agelasto, 45, cotton broker, b. Chios; wife Lucy Coronio, 30, b. Constantinople; sons Stephen, 8, b. Syros; John, 6; George, 4; daughters Despina, 5; Henrietta, 7; Hellen, 2 Mo, all b. Liverpool; & 3 servants. (Angelica Gould).

by Guest Wed 4 Feb 2015 - 23:46

The folks at Casebook have brought up some questions about this Mary Jane Wilson and arguments against her which they have left me to solve and rebut alone, except for one other person who isn't a regular poster anymore.

They weren't particularly damning as far as arguments go but I did find some good answers to a couple of them and I will be giving them soon as well as answering any other question you might have.

One question was why none of Mary Jane Wilson numerous London relatives never stepped up to identify her. Another question was how she could have been pregnant and had a baby and registered it in Liverpool and returned to London without Joe Barnett mentioning it or knowing about it....

by Guest Mon 9 Feb 2015 - 17:37

If she was Mary Jane Kelly, why did none of Mary Jane Wilson relatives in London come forward?

1. The same thing could be said of Mary Jane Kelly, no matter who she is, if she had relatives in London. Who's to say she didn't? One report said she had six brothers in London.

2. Mary Jane Wilson's son Robert Bruce virtually terrorized all of southern England during the 30s, including Surrey where his brother William lived with his family. But William denied being a Wilson and, when it was discovered he had a brother, he said he died in WWI. This behavior matches MJK's family.

Below found by Livia:

https://s66.photobucket.com/user/daftdevonian/media/WilsonRobertBruce-Surrey-3Nov1933_zps3e69d3c4.jpg.html

by Guest Mon 9 Feb 2015 - 18:49

Buckinghamshire, 1929

by Guest Fri 20 Feb 2015 - 19:10

Maybea wrote:Another question was how she could have been pregnant and had a baby and registered it in Liverpool and returned to London without Joe Barnett mentioning it or knowing about it....

It was subsequently revealed by my research that the Salvation Army in Whitechapel had midwifery, nursing and family finding services.

The train from London to Liverpool took as little as four and a half hours.

If Mary was as stout meaning large, at some point, as they say she was, I don't think Joe Barnett could tell if she was pregnant. And even if he knew and thought she got rid of the pregnancy, why would he tell people she got pregnant by someone else, even if it was before they met?

by Saponarolla Sun 21 Feb 2016 - 17:51

The DNA test with the Peterborough Maybrick on Facebook did not turn up a match. More family members would need to be tested as there is only a 50-50 chance of second or third cousins 7 steps removed of sharing the same DNA as their great or great great grandfather.
However, Morgensterns/ Morningstars showed up in the family tree of one of the cousin matches. It looks good for Adrianus Morgenstern as the father.

by Guest Thu 23 Dec 2021 - 19:30

The Dutch Morgensterns could not be linked to the Bavarian ones.

A few more months and four more paternity candidates and a match was found with the last and probably most obvious one — Joseph Fleming and a fourth cousin of his.

The trees of a total of six paternity candidates’ families had to be searched. The only help was Ancestry DNA search engine and less common pedigree names from the families of the paternal candidates. With Fleming it was Culmer.

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