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The Mysterious Mary Kelly.
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The Mysterious Mary Kelly.
by Guest Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 14:57
Mary Jane Kelly an enigma amongst the victims of the man known as Jack
The Ripper. Different in so many way's, she was young only 25. The other victims were over 40. She was said to have been quite attractive. Unlike the worn down drab's that Jack's other victims were. Mary had her own room, the other victim's lived in Doss houses where a bed was paid for with a four penny knee trembler against a wall.
Mary Jane Kelly's origins are uncertain to say the least, a tangled web of what is probably a little truth and a lot of fabrication. Joseph Barnett, who had been Mary's partner until shortly before she was killed, if indeed Mary was a ripper victim, stated that she had told him she was borne in Limerick, Ireland in 1863. According to an article in the Daily Telegraph of 13 November, she may have been one of many children. Perhaps as many as six brothers and a sister.
Whilst Mary was still a young girl the family moved to South Wales. There is some confusion as to whether the whole family moved to Wales or just Mary and her father. They settled in Llanelli, where her father was employed as a foreman in the local iron works. At the age of 16 Mary married a local collier named Davies. There is no record of this marriage held at St Catherines House. Tragically, Davies was killed in a mining accident a year later. However, this may be a fabrication on Mary's part. A Swansea reporter of the Western Mail published a statement made by a Mr John Rees of the Stepney Hotel in Llanelli. Mr Rees said that he employed Mary Jane Kelly as a servant in his hotel and that Mary left his employ to go to Swansea. Mary was said to frequent the Unity Inn is Swansea.
On the 15 November in a letter published in the Western Mail, the landlady of the Unity Inn said that no-one by the name of Mary Jane Kelly frequented her establishment. However, a young woman by the name of Abigail Kelly did. The Llanelly and County Guardian, on the 15 November reported:
It has been that Kelly was a Llanelli woman and that she left the area a few years ago. This does not appear to be correct as an investigation has failed to associate her with the town. No doubt the statement was made with reference to the Kelly family on the Wern, but all the girls are accounted for, two having left for America while the other lives with her husband in......continued
The Ripper. Different in so many way's, she was young only 25. The other victims were over 40. She was said to have been quite attractive. Unlike the worn down drab's that Jack's other victims were. Mary had her own room, the other victim's lived in Doss houses where a bed was paid for with a four penny knee trembler against a wall.
Mary Jane Kelly's origins are uncertain to say the least, a tangled web of what is probably a little truth and a lot of fabrication. Joseph Barnett, who had been Mary's partner until shortly before she was killed, if indeed Mary was a ripper victim, stated that she had told him she was borne in Limerick, Ireland in 1863. According to an article in the Daily Telegraph of 13 November, she may have been one of many children. Perhaps as many as six brothers and a sister.
Whilst Mary was still a young girl the family moved to South Wales. There is some confusion as to whether the whole family moved to Wales or just Mary and her father. They settled in Llanelli, where her father was employed as a foreman in the local iron works. At the age of 16 Mary married a local collier named Davies. There is no record of this marriage held at St Catherines House. Tragically, Davies was killed in a mining accident a year later. However, this may be a fabrication on Mary's part. A Swansea reporter of the Western Mail published a statement made by a Mr John Rees of the Stepney Hotel in Llanelli. Mr Rees said that he employed Mary Jane Kelly as a servant in his hotel and that Mary left his employ to go to Swansea. Mary was said to frequent the Unity Inn is Swansea.
On the 15 November in a letter published in the Western Mail, the landlady of the Unity Inn said that no-one by the name of Mary Jane Kelly frequented her establishment. However, a young woman by the name of Abigail Kelly did. The Llanelly and County Guardian, on the 15 November reported:
It has been that Kelly was a Llanelli woman and that she left the area a few years ago. This does not appear to be correct as an investigation has failed to associate her with the town. No doubt the statement was made with reference to the Kelly family on the Wern, but all the girls are accounted for, two having left for America while the other lives with her husband in......continued
Guest- Guest
continued
by Guest Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 15:03
Cardiff. This will be of interest as we will see later.
THE 1861 census shows that at 42 Wern Road, Llanelli there lived a family named Kelly. Dennis Kelly, with his wife Julia and his daughters, one of whom was called Abigail. In 1881Abigail married William Muir at St Mary's Catholic Church, Llanelli.
It now seems fairly obvious that it was Abigail and not Mary Jane that John Rees employed. However, there is a strange twist to this tale. The Western Mail of 13 November, published a statement by Mr John Rees in which he said that some 6 months earlier he had met Kelly in London and that she “Ran across the street “ and addressed him in Welsh. But at this time Abigail and her husband William were supposedly living in Kansas City, USA. If we assume that Rees is telling the truth who was he met in London? Was it Abigail or Mary Jane Kelly? Or were Abigail and Mary one and the same person.
Mary's story continues, as told by Joseph Barnett. After the death of her husband Mary went to stay with a cousin in Cardiff. Is it possible that this cousin was the daughter of Dennis Kelly of The Wern, Llanelli? Mary told Joseph that it was her cousin who introduced her to life on the street. Mary spent some time in the Cardiff Infirmary, reason unknown. Research undertaken by others has failed to find a Mary Jane Kelly in the Infirmary records.
Mary goes to London where she works in a high class West End brothel. She also went to France with a gentleman friend but returned a few weeks later as it was not to her liking. However, she did start calling herself Marie Jeanette Kelly and also Mary Jeanette Kelly.
For reasons unknown Mary eventually slides into the squalor and degradation of London's East End. It is possible that she was seeking refuge in the anonymity of sprawling East End. She may have possibly worked in one of the many East End brothels. But, how then did she end up in one of the meanest streets in the area? Dorset Street, known locally as Dossers Street was a nest of criminality, even the Police entered in pairs or more. Perhaps the brothel in which she worked became a victim of the fire and brimstone character Frederick Charrington. He was a brewery owner's son who, after witnessing a woman suffer a terrible beating by a drunken brute outside of a Charrington public house, turned to abstinence and celebacy as a man of God. He gave up a considerable fortune to follow his path of preaching the horrors of the demon drink all over the East End. He eventually turned his attention to the brothels and was successful in having a number of them shut down.
Mary may have been a part time prostitute resorting to the streets only when she had to. Mary was apparently well educated. In an interview given to the Press Associaton published in the Western Mail 10 November, Mrs McCarthy, with whom Kelly once lived at Breezers Hill Of Pennington Street, said that Mary was an excellent scholar and an artist of no mean degree. She also said that Mary was of a well-to-do family. The Times reported that Maria Harvey, who had stayed with Mary for a few nights, said that her status was much superior to that of most persons in her position. Why then did Mary ask Joseph to read the newspapers accounts of the murders to her?
Mary may have supplemented her income by way of an illegal arrangement with a un-named man who worked as a Layer out of the bodies of those that had died in the London Hosptal. Some of the dead were layed out in their Sunday-best. After the family had viewed the body the un-named man would remove the clothes and sell to Kelly, who in turn, sold them on. Unlikely, but not impossible.
Mary is also alleged to have had two children. One of which was adopted, the other sent overseas. This may be important as we shall see.
It should now be obvious that Mary Jane Kelly is encased in a fabric of mystery. And yet the plot thickens. A letter was allegedly received at Scotland Yard which was from a Miss Norma O'brien of Reefers Castle, Limerick, Ireland. There is no Reefers Castle in Limerick, Ireland. Miss O'brien stated that Mary Jeanette Kelly was her niece and that her real name was Mary Jane O'brien. She stated that she had been receiving letters
from her under the name of Mary Jeanette Kelly. Miss O'brien also claimed to have received a Christmas card from Kelly in January 1889. The card was posted in Canada. This may also be of significance.
If Mary was indeed still alive in 1889 then it would explain the at odds statement given by Mrs Caroline Maxwell of 14 Dorset street, who stated
THE 1861 census shows that at 42 Wern Road, Llanelli there lived a family named Kelly. Dennis Kelly, with his wife Julia and his daughters, one of whom was called Abigail. In 1881Abigail married William Muir at St Mary's Catholic Church, Llanelli.
It now seems fairly obvious that it was Abigail and not Mary Jane that John Rees employed. However, there is a strange twist to this tale. The Western Mail of 13 November, published a statement by Mr John Rees in which he said that some 6 months earlier he had met Kelly in London and that she “Ran across the street “ and addressed him in Welsh. But at this time Abigail and her husband William were supposedly living in Kansas City, USA. If we assume that Rees is telling the truth who was he met in London? Was it Abigail or Mary Jane Kelly? Or were Abigail and Mary one and the same person.
Mary's story continues, as told by Joseph Barnett. After the death of her husband Mary went to stay with a cousin in Cardiff. Is it possible that this cousin was the daughter of Dennis Kelly of The Wern, Llanelli? Mary told Joseph that it was her cousin who introduced her to life on the street. Mary spent some time in the Cardiff Infirmary, reason unknown. Research undertaken by others has failed to find a Mary Jane Kelly in the Infirmary records.
Mary goes to London where she works in a high class West End brothel. She also went to France with a gentleman friend but returned a few weeks later as it was not to her liking. However, she did start calling herself Marie Jeanette Kelly and also Mary Jeanette Kelly.
For reasons unknown Mary eventually slides into the squalor and degradation of London's East End. It is possible that she was seeking refuge in the anonymity of sprawling East End. She may have possibly worked in one of the many East End brothels. But, how then did she end up in one of the meanest streets in the area? Dorset Street, known locally as Dossers Street was a nest of criminality, even the Police entered in pairs or more. Perhaps the brothel in which she worked became a victim of the fire and brimstone character Frederick Charrington. He was a brewery owner's son who, after witnessing a woman suffer a terrible beating by a drunken brute outside of a Charrington public house, turned to abstinence and celebacy as a man of God. He gave up a considerable fortune to follow his path of preaching the horrors of the demon drink all over the East End. He eventually turned his attention to the brothels and was successful in having a number of them shut down.
Mary may have been a part time prostitute resorting to the streets only when she had to. Mary was apparently well educated. In an interview given to the Press Associaton published in the Western Mail 10 November, Mrs McCarthy, with whom Kelly once lived at Breezers Hill Of Pennington Street, said that Mary was an excellent scholar and an artist of no mean degree. She also said that Mary was of a well-to-do family. The Times reported that Maria Harvey, who had stayed with Mary for a few nights, said that her status was much superior to that of most persons in her position. Why then did Mary ask Joseph to read the newspapers accounts of the murders to her?
Mary may have supplemented her income by way of an illegal arrangement with a un-named man who worked as a Layer out of the bodies of those that had died in the London Hosptal. Some of the dead were layed out in their Sunday-best. After the family had viewed the body the un-named man would remove the clothes and sell to Kelly, who in turn, sold them on. Unlikely, but not impossible.
Mary is also alleged to have had two children. One of which was adopted, the other sent overseas. This may be important as we shall see.
It should now be obvious that Mary Jane Kelly is encased in a fabric of mystery. And yet the plot thickens. A letter was allegedly received at Scotland Yard which was from a Miss Norma O'brien of Reefers Castle, Limerick, Ireland. There is no Reefers Castle in Limerick, Ireland. Miss O'brien stated that Mary Jeanette Kelly was her niece and that her real name was Mary Jane O'brien. She stated that she had been receiving letters
from her under the name of Mary Jeanette Kelly. Miss O'brien also claimed to have received a Christmas card from Kelly in January 1889. The card was posted in Canada. This may also be of significance.
If Mary was indeed still alive in 1889 then it would explain the at odds statement given by Mrs Caroline Maxwell of 14 Dorset street, who stated
Guest- Guest
Re: The Mysterious Mary Kelly.
by Guest Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 15:07
that she saw Mary at approx 8.30 am on the morning of 9 November. Mary looked very ill and told Mrs Maxwell that she had the “Orror's” of the drink upon her. Mrs Maxwell told to go to the ringers pub, the Brittannia, for a half of beer. Mary said she had done that and thrown it back up again whilst pointing to some vomit in the gutter. At about 9.00 am Mrs Maxwell saw Mary again talking to a man outside the Brittannia. On the 17 November The Times reported that a Maurice Lewis, a tailor from Dorset Street, saw Mary leave her room at 8.00 am and return soon afterwards. He claimed to have seen Kelly later in the Horn of Plenty public house, sitting with some women at around 10.00 am.
Now if Mary had been out most of the night of the 8 November and returned to her room to find the mutilated body, she would most certainly have been in a state of shock. In her shocked state she barred the door with the marble topped table strewn with flesh and made her escape through the window. At the entrance to Millers Court she stopped and vomited, this is when she was seen by Mrs Maxwell. Mr Lewis must have seen Mary as she walked to the entrance. But would Mary have stayed in the area drinking with friends? Possibly, especially if she was waiting for someone to take her out of the East End. Who was the man Mrs Maxwell saw Mary talking to outside of the Brittannia?
If Mary wasn't the victim then who was? A name in the frame is that of is Winifred May Collis. No documentary evidence has been found as yet to support the existence of this person.
You will recall that Mary was said to have two children, one of whom was adopted, the other sent overseas. It was allegedly a boy sent overseas, to Vancouver, Canada. It was from here that Miss Norma O'brien received the Christmas card sent by Kelly. After her arrival in Canada Mary changed her name to Mary Jane Claston.
That concludes the story of Mary Jane Kelly, aka, Marie Jeanette Kelly, aka, Abigail Kelly, aka, Mary Jane O'brien, aka, Mary Claston.
Now if Mary had been out most of the night of the 8 November and returned to her room to find the mutilated body, she would most certainly have been in a state of shock. In her shocked state she barred the door with the marble topped table strewn with flesh and made her escape through the window. At the entrance to Millers Court she stopped and vomited, this is when she was seen by Mrs Maxwell. Mr Lewis must have seen Mary as she walked to the entrance. But would Mary have stayed in the area drinking with friends? Possibly, especially if she was waiting for someone to take her out of the East End. Who was the man Mrs Maxwell saw Mary talking to outside of the Brittannia?
If Mary wasn't the victim then who was? A name in the frame is that of is Winifred May Collis. No documentary evidence has been found as yet to support the existence of this person.
You will recall that Mary was said to have two children, one of whom was adopted, the other sent overseas. It was allegedly a boy sent overseas, to Vancouver, Canada. It was from here that Miss Norma O'brien received the Christmas card sent by Kelly. After her arrival in Canada Mary changed her name to Mary Jane Claston.
That concludes the story of Mary Jane Kelly, aka, Marie Jeanette Kelly, aka, Abigail Kelly, aka, Mary Jane O'brien, aka, Mary Claston.
Guest- Guest
Re: The Mysterious Mary Kelly.
by Karen Fri 8 Jul 2011 - 19:19
Thank you very much, Steve, for all of your interesting information on Mary Jane Kelly. In my second book on the Ripper murders, "Jack the Ripper: The Satanic Team" I find that Mary changed her name to Edith Claston and later moved to Kingston, Ontario. Her son, Michael, however, stayed in Vancouver and worked for a publishing house.
Karen- Admin
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Re: The Mysterious Mary Kelly.
by Guest Sat 9 Jul 2011 - 3:18
Thank you Karen. Mary truly is a mystery. To be honest I haven't read your books yet but I will. I have been studying the Ripper murders for 20 years and have been on a break for a few years.
I am particularly interested in your findings on Mary in Canada. Fascinating!!
Regards
steve.
I am particularly interested in your findings on Mary in Canada. Fascinating!!
Regards
steve.
Guest- Guest
Claston/Claxton
by Karen Sat 9 Jul 2011 - 9:08
I will post all of the Claston's/Claxton's that I can find in the Canadian Censuses of 1891, 1901 and 1911 that were born between 1860-1865.
Family or Household Name of each person in family or household on 31st March, 1901. Sex.
Relationship to head of family or household. Single,
married, widowed or divorced. Month and date of birth. Year of birth. Age at last birthday.
4 29 40 Munsey Joseph M Head S Jan 11 1863 38
4 30 40 Claxton Maggie M Servant S Jun 1 1863 38
previous household next household
Source Information:
1901 Census of Canada
Subdistrict: Ward/Quartier No. 3, TORONTO (Centre) (City/Cité), ONTARIO
District Number: 116
Subdistrict Number: a-6
Archives Microfilm: T-6497
Family or Household Name of each person in family or household on 31st March, 1901. Sex. C
Relationship to head of family or household. Single, married, widowed or divorced. Month and date of birth. Year of birth. Age at last birthday.
8 7 78 Clouston Jane F Head W Nov 5 1821 79
8 8 78 Clouston Robert M Son S Jul 31 1863 37
8 9 78 Clouston Mary F Daughter S May 17 1865 35
8 10 78 Douney Samuel M Domestic S Jun 15 1878 22
previous household next household
Source Information:
1901 Census of Canada
Subdistrict: Haldimand, NORTHUMBERLAND (West/Ouest), ONTARIO
District Number: 96
Subdistrict Number: c-6
Archives Microfilm: T-6486
Family or Household Name of each person in family or household on 31st March, 1901. Sex. C
Relationship to head of family or household. Single, married, widowed or divorced. Month and date of birth. Year of birth. Age at last birthday.
1 1 1 Clauston Samuel M Head M Apr 19 1864 36
1 2 1 Clauston Mary E F Wife M Jul 3 1860 40
1 3 1 Clauston John S M Son S Apr 14 1893 7
1 4 1 Clauston Ellen C F Daughter S Dec 26 1894 6
1 5 1 Clauston Marian F Daughter S Aug 1 1896 4
1 6 1 Clauston Bessie F Daughter S Dec 11 1899 2
1 7 1 Coe Elizabeth F Lodger M Jul 11 1842 58
Source Information:
1901 Census of Canada
Subdistrict: York, YORK (West/Ouest), ONTARIO
District Number: 131
Subdistrict Number: l-4
Archives Microfilm: T-6509
Family or Household Name of each person in family or household on 31st March, 1901. Sex.
Relationship to head of family or household. Single,
married, widowed or divorced. Month and date of birth. Year of birth. Age at last birthday.
4 29 40 Munsey Joseph M Head S Jan 11 1863 38
4 30 40 Claxton Maggie M Servant S Jun 1 1863 38
previous household next household
Source Information:
1901 Census of Canada
Subdistrict: Ward/Quartier No. 3, TORONTO (Centre) (City/Cité), ONTARIO
District Number: 116
Subdistrict Number: a-6
Archives Microfilm: T-6497
Family or Household Name of each person in family or household on 31st March, 1901. Sex. C
Relationship to head of family or household. Single, married, widowed or divorced. Month and date of birth. Year of birth. Age at last birthday.
8 7 78 Clouston Jane F Head W Nov 5 1821 79
8 8 78 Clouston Robert M Son S Jul 31 1863 37
8 9 78 Clouston Mary F Daughter S May 17 1865 35
8 10 78 Douney Samuel M Domestic S Jun 15 1878 22
previous household next household
Source Information:
1901 Census of Canada
Subdistrict: Haldimand, NORTHUMBERLAND (West/Ouest), ONTARIO
District Number: 96
Subdistrict Number: c-6
Archives Microfilm: T-6486
Family or Household Name of each person in family or household on 31st March, 1901. Sex. C
Relationship to head of family or household. Single, married, widowed or divorced. Month and date of birth. Year of birth. Age at last birthday.
1 1 1 Clauston Samuel M Head M Apr 19 1864 36
1 2 1 Clauston Mary E F Wife M Jul 3 1860 40
1 3 1 Clauston John S M Son S Apr 14 1893 7
1 4 1 Clauston Ellen C F Daughter S Dec 26 1894 6
1 5 1 Clauston Marian F Daughter S Aug 1 1896 4
1 6 1 Clauston Bessie F Daughter S Dec 11 1899 2
1 7 1 Coe Elizabeth F Lodger M Jul 11 1842 58
Source Information:
1901 Census of Canada
Subdistrict: York, YORK (West/Ouest), ONTARIO
District Number: 131
Subdistrict Number: l-4
Archives Microfilm: T-6509
Last edited by Karen on Sat 9 Jul 2011 - 10:48; edited 1 time in total
Karen- Admin
- Posts : 4919
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Re: The Mysterious Mary Kelly.
by Karen Sat 9 Jul 2011 - 9:47
Family or Household Name of each person in family or household on 31st March, 1901. Sex.
Relationship to head of family or household. Single, married, widowed or divorced. Month and date of birth. Year of birth. Age at last birthday.
5 11 42 Calston Margret F Head S Feb 2 1862 39
5 12 42 Calston Martin M Brother S Nov 12 1872 29
5 13 42 Calston Henry M Brother S Dec 16 1877 24
5 14 42 Calston Ellen F Sister S Nov 23 1880 21
Source Information:
1901 Census of Canada
Subdistrict: Ward/Quartier No. 5, TORONTO (West/Ouest) (City/Cité), ONTARIO
District Number: 118
Subdistrict Number: c-6
Archives Microfilm: T-6500
Relationship to head of family or household. Single, married, widowed or divorced. Month and date of birth. Year of birth. Age at last birthday.
5 11 42 Calston Margret F Head S Feb 2 1862 39
5 12 42 Calston Martin M Brother S Nov 12 1872 29
5 13 42 Calston Henry M Brother S Dec 16 1877 24
5 14 42 Calston Ellen F Sister S Nov 23 1880 21
Source Information:
1901 Census of Canada
Subdistrict: Ward/Quartier No. 5, TORONTO (West/Ouest) (City/Cité), ONTARIO
District Number: 118
Subdistrict Number: c-6
Archives Microfilm: T-6500
Karen- Admin
- Posts : 4919
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Re: The Mysterious Mary Kelly.
by Karen Sat 9 Jul 2011 - 10:40
Family or Household Name of each person in family or household on 31st March, 1901. Sex.
Relationship to head of family or household. Single, married, widowed or divorced. Month and date of birth. Year of birth. Age at last birthday.
4 5 28 Awde Robert M Head M Feb 26 1838 63
4 6 28 Awde Phoebe F Wife M May 28 1837 63
4 7 28 Trendgold Ida F Roomer S Feb 16 1875 25
4 8 28 Trendgold Nina F Roomer S Dec 18 1874 26
4 9 28 Claxton Emma F W Oct 28 1860 40
previous household next household
Source Information:
1901 Census of Canada
Subdistrict: Ward/Quartier No. 6, TORONTO (West/Ouest) (City/Cité), ONTARIO
District Number: 118
Subdistrict Number: d-6
Archives Microfilm: T-6501
Relationship to head of family or household. Single, married, widowed or divorced. Month and date of birth. Year of birth. Age at last birthday.
4 5 28 Awde Robert M Head M Feb 26 1838 63
4 6 28 Awde Phoebe F Wife M May 28 1837 63
4 7 28 Trendgold Ida F Roomer S Feb 16 1875 25
4 8 28 Trendgold Nina F Roomer S Dec 18 1874 26
4 9 28 Claxton Emma F W Oct 28 1860 40
previous household next household
Source Information:
1901 Census of Canada
Subdistrict: Ward/Quartier No. 6, TORONTO (West/Ouest) (City/Cité), ONTARIO
District Number: 118
Subdistrict Number: d-6
Archives Microfilm: T-6501
Last edited by Karen on Sat 9 Jul 2011 - 10:50; edited 1 time in total
Karen- Admin
- Posts : 4919
-
Re: The Mysterious Mary Kelly.
by Karen Sat 9 Jul 2011 - 10:44
Family or Household Name of each person in family or household on 31st March, 1901. Sex.
Relationship to head of family or household. Single, married, widowed or divorced. Month and date of birth. Year of birth. Age at last birthday.
6 26 58 Claxton Walter C. M Head M Sep 13 1859 41
6 27 58 Claxton Josephine F Wife M Oct 24 1861 39
6 28 58 Kerlin Edward M Lodger S Oct 31 1864 36
6 29 58 Carson James M Lodger W Sep 20 1860 40
previous household next household
Source Information:
1901 Census of Canada
Subdistrict: Calgary (Centre), ALBERTA, THE TERRITORIES
District Number: 202
Subdistrict Number: r-2
Archives Microfilm: T-6550
Relationship to head of family or household. Single, married, widowed or divorced. Month and date of birth. Year of birth. Age at last birthday.
6 26 58 Claxton Walter C. M Head M Sep 13 1859 41
6 27 58 Claxton Josephine F Wife M Oct 24 1861 39
6 28 58 Kerlin Edward M Lodger S Oct 31 1864 36
6 29 58 Carson James M Lodger W Sep 20 1860 40
previous household next household
Source Information:
1901 Census of Canada
Subdistrict: Calgary (Centre), ALBERTA, THE TERRITORIES
District Number: 202
Subdistrict Number: r-2
Archives Microfilm: T-6550
Karen- Admin
- Posts : 4919
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Re: The Mysterious Mary Kelly.
by Karen Sat 9 Jul 2011 - 13:43
In the 1901 Canadian Census, there are 0 Claston's to be found.
In the 1911 Canadian Census, there is only 1 woman named Claston, but she was born in 1850 which most people would consider too old to have been Mary Jane Kelly.
1911 Census of Canada
Home / 1911 / Ontario / Lambton West / 30 Sarnia / page 1 split view
10 2 Battle Lily M F Daughter S Apr 1896 15
11 2 Battle Gordon C M Son S May 1899 12
12 2 Battle Frederick M M Son S Mar 1902 9
13 2 Battle Leni M Brother S Apr 1952 59
14 3 Claston Alfred M Head M Oct 1849 62
15 3 Claston Alice F Wife M Aug 60
16 3 Claston Bessie E F Daughter S Jan 1896 15
17 4 Fullcok John M Head M Mar 1832 79
18 4 Fullcok Charlotte F Wife M Sep 1845 65
19 4 Fullcok Eda F Daughter S Jan 1868 42
In the 1911 Canadian Census, there is only 1 woman named Claston, but she was born in 1850 which most people would consider too old to have been Mary Jane Kelly.
1911 Census of Canada
Home / 1911 / Ontario / Lambton West / 30 Sarnia / page 1 split view
10 2 Battle Lily M F Daughter S Apr 1896 15
11 2 Battle Gordon C M Son S May 1899 12
12 2 Battle Frederick M M Son S Mar 1902 9
13 2 Battle Leni M Brother S Apr 1952 59
14 3 Claston Alfred M Head M Oct 1849 62
15 3 Claston Alice F Wife M Aug 60
16 3 Claston Bessie E F Daughter S Jan 1896 15
17 4 Fullcok John M Head M Mar 1832 79
18 4 Fullcok Charlotte F Wife M Sep 1845 65
19 4 Fullcok Eda F Daughter S Jan 1868 42
Karen- Admin
- Posts : 4919
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Re: The Mysterious Mary Kelly.
by Guest Sat 9 Jul 2011 - 15:11
Thank you again. I will follow up the information you have provided. The plot thickens does it not!!
Are you aware of the Fenian angle concerning Kelly? Now that is an angle I had not considered.
Are you aware of the Fenian angle concerning Kelly? Now that is an angle I had not considered.
Guest- Guest
Re: The Mysterious Mary Kelly.
by Karen Sat 9 Jul 2011 - 22:03
From the 1891 Census, I found 3 possible Claxtons:
1.) Alice Claxton, born in England
[img]
[/img]
2.) Elizabeth Claxton, born in England
[img]
[/img]
3.) Anna Claxton, born in England
[img]
[/img]
1.) Alice Claxton, born in England
[img]
[/img]2.) Elizabeth Claxton, born in England
[img]
[/img]3.) Anna Claxton, born in England
[img]
[/img]
Karen- Admin
- Posts : 4919
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Re: The Mysterious Mary Kelly.
by Karen Sat 9 Jul 2011 - 22:10
Hello Steve,
Yes I am aware of the Fenian angle involving Mary Jane Kelly and I believe that she was being protected by the Fenians. James Mullett, who was involved in the Phoenix Park murders in Dublin, Ireland owned a lodging house in Miller's Court. They may also have possibly assisted in sending her to Canada.
Yes I am aware of the Fenian angle involving Mary Jane Kelly and I believe that she was being protected by the Fenians. James Mullett, who was involved in the Phoenix Park murders in Dublin, Ireland owned a lodging house in Miller's Court. They may also have possibly assisted in sending her to Canada.
Karen- Admin
- Posts : 4919
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Re: The Mysterious Mary Kelly.
by Karen Sat 9 Jul 2011 - 23:16
1891 Canadian Census, Mitilda Clouston, born in Scotland
[img]
[/img]
[img]
[/img]
Karen- Admin
- Posts : 4919
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Re: The Mysterious Mary Kelly.
by Guest Sun 10 Jul 2011 - 4:30
I note with interest that one of those charged with the Phoenix Park murders and subsequently hanged was a Tim Kelly!! Perhap's sheer coincidence, perhap's not.
Guest- Guest
Re: The Mysterious Mary Kelly.
by Magpie Sun 10 Jul 2011 - 5:29
Why don't you just post the census info for Edith Claxton of Kingston? You've posted it before, after all.
Magpie- Guest
Re: The Mysterious Mary Kelly.
by Guest Sun 10 Jul 2011 - 7:07
Is this Mary's family in Wales?
At first glance the answer would be no. However, Mary's father was called John. She also supposedly had a brother called John (Johnno) and was said to have 6 brothers and a sister. It was also the custom to name the first girl child after the mother. One thing is very obviously wrong though....no Mary Kelly listed as a daughter.
Source: http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/rip-originsmjk.html
John Kelly, | head, | 36 | General Labourer | born Ireland. |
Mary Kelly | wife, | 37 | born Ireland. | |
John Kelly | son | 14 | scholar | born Boston, America. |
Dennis Kelly | son | 10 | scholar | born America. |
Daniel Kelly | son | 9 | scholar | born America. |
Joseph Kelly | son | 6 | scholar | born Ireland. |
Ignatius Kelly | son | 3 | born Ireland. | |
James Kelly Winifred Kelly | son daughter | 2 weeks 2 weeks | born Carnarvon. born Carnarvon. |
Source: http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/rip-originsmjk.html
Guest- Guest
Re: The Mysterious Mary Kelly.
by Karen Sun 10 Jul 2011 - 11:39
1911 Census of Canada
Home / 1911 / Ontario / Kingston / 1 Kingston / page 25 split view
4 270 Hamilton Clark M Head M Mar 1833 78
5 270 Hamilton Sarah D F Wife M Sep 1833 77
6 271 Thompson Thomas P M Head M Aug 1854 56
7 271 Thompson Elizabeth F Wife M Jul 1858 52
8 271 Thompson Sydney M Son S Oct ? 32
9 271 Thompson Gladys F Daughter S Jan 1891 20
10 272 Beiden Agnes F Head W Feb 1875 36
11 272 Moreacy A*temise F Daughter S Oct 1898 12
12 272 Carroll Winnifred F Sister W Nov 1871 39
13 272 Carroll Charles M Nephew S Apr 1895 16
14 272 Herriott George M Lodger S Jun 1882 28
15 273 Clarke John W M Head M May 1856 55
16 273 Clarke Addie F Wife M Jan 1862 48
17 273 Waleworth Garriet F Niece S Oct 1887 23
18 274 Claxton Edith F Head W May 1852 59
19 274 Claxton Winnifred F Daughter S Apr 1889 22
20 275 Best Louis M Head M Apr 1881 30
21 275 Best Nevada J F Wife M Sep 1881 29
This is the Edith Claxton that I found and notice how she has a daughter Winifred who was born in April 1889. It was stated that Mary Jane Kelly may have been pregnant in November 1888.
Home / 1911 / Ontario / Kingston / 1 Kingston / page 25 split view
4 270 Hamilton Clark M Head M Mar 1833 78
5 270 Hamilton Sarah D F Wife M Sep 1833 77
6 271 Thompson Thomas P M Head M Aug 1854 56
7 271 Thompson Elizabeth F Wife M Jul 1858 52
8 271 Thompson Sydney M Son S Oct ? 32
9 271 Thompson Gladys F Daughter S Jan 1891 20
10 272 Beiden Agnes F Head W Feb 1875 36
11 272 Moreacy A*temise F Daughter S Oct 1898 12
12 272 Carroll Winnifred F Sister W Nov 1871 39
13 272 Carroll Charles M Nephew S Apr 1895 16
14 272 Herriott George M Lodger S Jun 1882 28
15 273 Clarke John W M Head M May 1856 55
16 273 Clarke Addie F Wife M Jan 1862 48
17 273 Waleworth Garriet F Niece S Oct 1887 23
18 274 Claxton Edith F Head W May 1852 59
19 274 Claxton Winnifred F Daughter S Apr 1889 22
20 275 Best Louis M Head M Apr 1881 30
21 275 Best Nevada J F Wife M Sep 1881 29
This is the Edith Claxton that I found and notice how she has a daughter Winifred who was born in April 1889. It was stated that Mary Jane Kelly may have been pregnant in November 1888.
Karen- Admin
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Re: The Mysterious Mary Kelly.
by Guest Sun 10 Jul 2011 - 12:32
Now I am intrigued. Mary possibly had a younger sister called Winifred. And if we believe Mary did make it to Canada, she has a daughter and names her Winifred! That has got to be more than coincidence or one huge coincidence depending on your point of view. Mary gets more mysterious with every twist this story takes.
However, I do have a problem with Edith Claxton. Her age is wrong, Mary was said to be 25 or 26 in 1888 and not 37. Unless born with remarkable youth genes it would be difficult for someone of 37 to pass as a 25 year old. Also taking into account the conditions she lived in at the time. But I have to conceed the Winifred connection is a compelling one.
Had to come back to this one. I was looking for info on Edith Claxton. I found a forum which I am sure you are aware of. Without prejudice or malicious intent I say that there are some rather derogatory comments there. This appears to be all to common on Ripper forums...people bashing!! When I read a book on the Ripper I expect the Author to fit his or her suspect to the evidence. And many Authors have done that. It's the evidence I take notice of. Has the Author uncovered anything new etc. The fact that the manuscript of your books was deemed good enough for publishing is a testiment to your research and presentation skills. I hope I don't fall foul of the forum rules here. I am not kissing Butt just stating my opinion.
However, I do have a problem with Edith Claxton. Her age is wrong, Mary was said to be 25 or 26 in 1888 and not 37. Unless born with remarkable youth genes it would be difficult for someone of 37 to pass as a 25 year old. Also taking into account the conditions she lived in at the time. But I have to conceed the Winifred connection is a compelling one.
Had to come back to this one. I was looking for info on Edith Claxton. I found a forum which I am sure you are aware of. Without prejudice or malicious intent I say that there are some rather derogatory comments there. This appears to be all to common on Ripper forums...people bashing!! When I read a book on the Ripper I expect the Author to fit his or her suspect to the evidence. And many Authors have done that. It's the evidence I take notice of. Has the Author uncovered anything new etc. The fact that the manuscript of your books was deemed good enough for publishing is a testiment to your research and presentation skills. I hope I don't fall foul of the forum rules here. I am not kissing Butt just stating my opinion.
Last edited by steve on Sun 10 Jul 2011 - 13:35; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Add to reply)
Guest- Guest
Re: The Mysterious Mary Kelly.
by Karen Sun 10 Jul 2011 - 17:13
Mary's age is uncertain, since it may have been Winifred May Davies who was really murdered in Miller's Court. The victim, Winifred Davies, was 25 years of age (born in August, according to Abberline). Mrs. Kennedy claimed that on the night of Mary/Winifred's murder, she was visiting her parent's in Miller's Court and as she walked across the street into Miller's Court she saw 2 women talking to one or two men. She described one woman as being young (25) and the other one was much older (35). That 35 year old was probably the real Mary Jane O'Brien/Kelly.
Here is an account from the Irish Times of Monday 12 November 1888:
A woman named Kennedy, who was staying with her parents at a house in the court immediately opposite the room in which the body was found, makes a statement which, if trustworthy, there seems little reason to doubt fixes conclusively the time of the murder. She says that about 3 o'clock on Friday morning she entered her parents' house, which is just opposite, and noticed three persons on the corner of the street near the Brittania publichouse. There was a young man respectably dressed, with a dark moustache, talking to a woman whom she did not know. There was also another woman poorly clad without any headwear. The man and woman appeared to be the wrose for liquor, and she heard the man ask, "Are you coming?" Whereupon the woman turned in an opposite direction than that in which the man wished her to go. She did not return. Kennedy remained at her parents house for some time, and about half-past 3 she heard a cry of "murder" from the direction of Kelly's room. The cry was not repeated, and she took no further notice until she heard of the murder. She has since stated as follows:- "On Wednesday evening I and my sister were in the neighbourhood of Bethnal Green road, when we were accosted by a suspicious-looking man, about forty years old, 5 feet 8 inches high, who wore a short jacket, over which he had a long top-coat, and a billycock hat. He had a black moustache. He wanted us to accompany him to a lonely spot, as he said he was known about here, and that there was a policeman looking at him." She asserted no policeman was in sight. He made several strange remarks, and was very white in the face, which he endeavoured to conceal. He carried a black bag, and he led the way to a dark thoroughfare at the back of the workhouse, and they followed him. He pushed open a small door in a pair of large gates, and asked one of them to follow him, saying "I only want one." They became alarmed and escaped, raising a cry of "Jack the Ripper." A gentleman who was passing is said to have intercepted the man, while the woman made their escape. The man, Mrs Kennedy states, whom she saw on Friday closely resembles the one who alarmed her on Thursday evening. She could recognise him again. Her description tallies with that already in possession of the police as that of the supposed murderer. There is every probability therefore that the murderer entered the unhappy woman's house early on Friday morning.
As to the people-bashing that occurs on other forums, you must see who and where it is coming from. It is coming from sad individuals who spend all day conversing on forums (do they not work?), abusing others, writing scathing reviews of books that they have not read and committing other gross acts/offences, but I have said enough.
Here is an account from the Irish Times of Monday 12 November 1888:
A woman named Kennedy, who was staying with her parents at a house in the court immediately opposite the room in which the body was found, makes a statement which, if trustworthy, there seems little reason to doubt fixes conclusively the time of the murder. She says that about 3 o'clock on Friday morning she entered her parents' house, which is just opposite, and noticed three persons on the corner of the street near the Brittania publichouse. There was a young man respectably dressed, with a dark moustache, talking to a woman whom she did not know. There was also another woman poorly clad without any headwear. The man and woman appeared to be the wrose for liquor, and she heard the man ask, "Are you coming?" Whereupon the woman turned in an opposite direction than that in which the man wished her to go. She did not return. Kennedy remained at her parents house for some time, and about half-past 3 she heard a cry of "murder" from the direction of Kelly's room. The cry was not repeated, and she took no further notice until she heard of the murder. She has since stated as follows:- "On Wednesday evening I and my sister were in the neighbourhood of Bethnal Green road, when we were accosted by a suspicious-looking man, about forty years old, 5 feet 8 inches high, who wore a short jacket, over which he had a long top-coat, and a billycock hat. He had a black moustache. He wanted us to accompany him to a lonely spot, as he said he was known about here, and that there was a policeman looking at him." She asserted no policeman was in sight. He made several strange remarks, and was very white in the face, which he endeavoured to conceal. He carried a black bag, and he led the way to a dark thoroughfare at the back of the workhouse, and they followed him. He pushed open a small door in a pair of large gates, and asked one of them to follow him, saying "I only want one." They became alarmed and escaped, raising a cry of "Jack the Ripper." A gentleman who was passing is said to have intercepted the man, while the woman made their escape. The man, Mrs Kennedy states, whom she saw on Friday closely resembles the one who alarmed her on Thursday evening. She could recognise him again. Her description tallies with that already in possession of the police as that of the supposed murderer. There is every probability therefore that the murderer entered the unhappy woman's house early on Friday morning.
As to the people-bashing that occurs on other forums, you must see who and where it is coming from. It is coming from sad individuals who spend all day conversing on forums (do they not work?), abusing others, writing scathing reviews of books that they have not read and committing other gross acts/offences, but I have said enough.
Karen- Admin
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Re: The Mysterious Mary Kelly.
by Guest Wed 23 Nov 2011 - 21:15
A very interesting compilation, I must say, with interesting Canadian linkages.
Allow me to say that eithnic-Irish descendants who emigrated, or whose ancestors emigrated, from Britian would more likely emigrate to a British Commonwealth country rather than the U.S., hense Canada as a likely destination for Mary Kelly and her descendants.
Allow me to say that eithnic-Irish descendants who emigrated, or whose ancestors emigrated, from Britian would more likely emigrate to a British Commonwealth country rather than the U.S., hense Canada as a likely destination for Mary Kelly and her descendants.
Guest- Guest
Re: The Mysterious Mary Kelly.
by Guest Sat 26 Nov 2011 - 15:11
I live in Swansea, Wales. About 25 years ago, long before the internet, I
worked with a woman, who was in her 60s and also from Swansea. We
became quite friendly and one day ( when talking about the fact that we
both, as is common in Swansea, had Irish ancestry) she told me that her
grandmother's sister (or possibly her great grandmother's sister - I wish I could remember which) was Mary Kelly, a
victim of Jack the Ripper. She said her grandmother and mother, all from
Swansea, rarely mentioned this due to the 'shame' of Mary's being was
a prostitute) Does anyone else know of this Swansea connection?
worked with a woman, who was in her 60s and also from Swansea. We
became quite friendly and one day ( when talking about the fact that we
both, as is common in Swansea, had Irish ancestry) she told me that her
grandmother's sister (or possibly her great grandmother's sister - I wish I could remember which) was Mary Kelly, a
victim of Jack the Ripper. She said her grandmother and mother, all from
Swansea, rarely mentioned this due to the 'shame' of Mary's being was
a prostitute) Does anyone else know of this Swansea connection?
Guest- Guest
Re: The Mysterious Mary Kelly.
by Guest Tue 29 Nov 2011 - 20:48
I've heard of several Swansea connections starting with the alleged MJK who was a servant of a Dr. Rees before moving to Swansea, and author Tony Williams from Swansea who suspected his uncle had an affair with Mary and was Jack the Ripper.
There is also a Swansea connection with a possible candidate for her madame "Mrs Buki".
According to the Swansea reporter of the Cardiff Western mail Nov 13 1888;
I have this direct from Mr. Rees himself. Mr. Rees says that Kelly was born at Llanelly, and not Limerick. Her father was a marine store dealer... (In later reports Rees says he employed Kelly at Llanelly.
...She left his service and went to Swansea where she remained for some time. She will probably be remembered at the Unity, which she used to frequent.
There is also a Swansea connection with a possible candidate for her madame "Mrs Buki".
Guest- Guest
Re: The Mysterious Mary Kelly.
by Guest Mon 1 Apr 2013 - 6:51
i am at a loss so far as to see how this Winnifred comes into the picture, based on what is already known about the case. The Maybrick/Davies post of yours didnt exactly clarify matters. especially since Maybrick obviously had nothing to do with the case, in all fairness. Kelly was not 35 in 1888, but 25. The only name of a brother of hers i ever came across is Heny, who served in the 2nd batallions scots guard. Possibly she had a brother named John. but i have never seen any source mentioning this name.
Guest- Guest
Re: The Mysterious Mary Kelly.
by Guest Mon 1 Apr 2013 - 6:56
" In my second book on the Ripper murders, "Jack the Ripper: The Satanic Team" I find that Mary changed her name to Edith Claston and later moved to Kingston, Ontario. Her son, Michael, however, stayed in Vancouver and worked for a publishing house."
whats your source for this theory? any documentation?
whats your source for this theory? any documentation?
Guest- Guest
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Similar topics» Mary Kelly's West End Madam
» Details Of Kelly's Murder and Inquest
» Mary Kelly Gives Description of JTR
» Others Named Mary Kelly
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» Details Of Kelly's Murder and Inquest
» Mary Kelly Gives Description of JTR
» Others Named Mary Kelly
» Mary Jane Kelly in The War Cry?
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